Help with My Memory??? Other Vista Discussions Discuss Help with My Memory??? in the Windows Vista forums; first off what dose it say in the Memroy tab in cpuz? i think your ram is already running at max speed anyway. So if you was to overclock you ...

[Seansmit17]

first off what dose it say in the Memroy tab in cpuz? i think your ram is already running at max speed anyway. So if you was to overclock you would be putting the memory past 667mhz. so if you want the ram to run at max speed... youdont need to do anyhthing as it already is! lol but the Memory tab will tell all

[Znod]

I am confused. "Max speed" is set by the manufacturer, right? And, overclocking involves running beyond the max speed set by the manufacturer, right? So, don't you have to push things beyond "max speed" to overclock?

Am I running at max speed--333 MHz (see snip below)? Is there any reason I wouldn't be? Gateway would have matched processor and RAM so that max RAM speed is attained, right?

[Seansmit17]

yep, your running at 333mhz... so why do you want to make it run at 333mhz if its doing so already :P

[Znod]

Isn't 333 Mhz a manufacturer's max, not an overclocked value? Ideally, shouldn't the overclocked amount = Manufacturer's built-in safety factor + the manufacturer's max? In coming up with my numbers, I just followed your lead in your first reply. Did you check my calculations comparing them to yours?

[crabby]

Ok... so you want to overclock... it's complicated! I first suggest you read this: http://eclipseoc.com/index.php?id=6,51,0,0,1,0 so as to get a general understanding of the different components of OC'ing. I would then suggest you check your BIOS as many motherboards don't support all the OC features which you require for proper results.

Once you have read that, get back to us with any questions

crabby

[Seansmit17]

Is this pc your overclocking a dell?? if it is.. then im sorry to so that overclocking it will be dam near impossible!! dell talk out all the options like that from there bios, sucks i know

[Znod]

Originally Posted by crabby

Ok... so you want to overclock... it's complicated! I first suggest you read this: http://eclipseoc.com/index.php?id=6,51,0,0,1,0 so as to get a general understanding of the different components of OC'ing. I would then suggest you check your BIOS as many motherboards don't support all the OC features which you require for proper results.

Once you have read that, get back to us with any questions

crabby

Very good crabby. I will read the read, and I have been learning, I hope correctly, about the things you mention. Thanks much. I may just be buying new RAM and maybe overclocking my CPU a tad. Please see below.

[Znod]

Originally Posted by Seansmit17

Is this pc your overclocking a dell?? if it is.. then im sorry to so that overclocking it will be dam near impossible!! dell talk out all the options like that from there bios, sucks i know

Hi Sean. I think I am getting the hang of overclocking, etc. And, no, I am talking about my Gateway desktop. And, as you say, the bios might not be very amenable to overclocking. I am preparing a post related to what I have learned here: http://thevistaforums.com/index.php?...t=0#entry59379.

[Znod]

New Learnings for Me--Based Primarily on a Long Post by Catweazle on the Thread Linked Above:

Theory:

System clock is Everything (Catweazle's comments, slightly paraphrased and editied, are in guotes below.):

Your system clock uses a relatively smallish frequency. It's simply an oscillating electrical pulse, and if it runs too fast, everything gets too hot. Sounds to me, from your description, that the system clock in your system runs at a default setting of 133MHz (I am using 266 2/3 below because "things" seen to "work out better." But, the theory is pretty much irrelevant to practice anyway.)

"Everything else in the system depends upon that system clock, and interacts with it via 'multipliers' to get their own speeds of operation. Think of your system clock as a motor running at fixed revolutions and everything else as being connected to it via a gearbox, if you like.

Your 'FSB speed' is the result of the circuitry in your CPU converting that system clock frequency to a communication-line between the CPU core and everything else. It 'pumps' the thing by a factor of 8 4, or in other words, 8 (4) transactions occur per clock cycle."

Znod: For my system, 4 * 266 2/3 = 1066 2/3 = FSB (233 2/3 = System Clock Speed, and 4 = System Clock

"Your 'CPU speed' is the result of that 'FSB' being multiplied by the CPU multiplier and then divided by the number of CPU cores."

Znod: 1066 2/3 * 6 / 4 = 1600 GHz = Core Speed = CPU Speed

"Now, let's increase the speed of that little motor humming away at the heart of it all. Small increases to the system clock get magnified by the multiplying effects elsewhere. A 1 MHz increase to that system clock will result in an 8 (12) MHz increase to FSB, and a 24MHz (12 MHz increase overall to your CPU speed.

Znod: FSB Increase = (134 1/3 * 8 * 6 / 4) - (133 1/3 * 8 * 6 / 4) = 1(8 * 6 / 4) = 12 MHz

New FSB = 1066 2/3 + 12 = 1078 2/3

Side Issues Before Considering RAM Speed

"Firstly, everybody needs to be mindful of the need to 'protect' the speed of operation of the other, system, buses in the PC. The PCI bus speed. The AGP bus speed. The PCIe bus speed - whatever you have in the particular system. All the components depend upon those, and they in turn depend upon the system clock. If they get boosted outside of a tolerable range communication between audio chips, add-in cards, display cards, drive controllers and whatnot else gets way out of whack and communication errors occur. So overclockers use motherboards which allow those system bus speeds to be 'locked' to a fixed frequency. If your motherboard doesn't allow them to be locked then you'll only ever be able to overclock a teensy bit before you get system instability.

Secondly, the setting in your BIOS may or may not report speeds (frequencies) in terms of the actual system clock frequency. Your 'CPU FSB' setting, for example, may be presented to you as an actaul bus speed setting (ie 1066.7MHZ) or an actual system clock setting (ie 133.3MHz) or perhaps even as a doubled or quadrupled system clock frequency. That varies from BIOS to BIOS, but its always still the same thing. A system clock frequency which is acted upon by the multiplying effect of the technology's implementation. It all and always comes back to that system clock frequency.

RAM Speed

"OK. To get that 667MHz RAM speed your system clock is again being acted upon. That 667MHz is your 266 2/3 MHz system clock multiplied by a factor of 2.5. My old head isn't quite getting around the maths of it at present, so I can't dredge up a 'proper fraction' divisor for you, but it means that your CPU FSB is being multiplied by a factor of about 0.625."

Znod: 266 2/3 * 2.5 = 666 2/3 (I'm not clear on "fractional divisor" thing.)

"Changes you make to your system clock (and thus FSB speed) will impact on your RAM speed by that factor."

"Let's say you overclock to bump that system clock up by 10 MHz. The inpact will be:"

Znod: FSB increase = 10(8 * 6 / 4) = 40 Mhz
New FSB = 1066 2/3 + 20 = 1086 2/3 Mhz
Core Speed = CPU Speed = 1086 2/3 * 6 / 4 = 1630 MHz or 1.63 GHz
RAM Speed = 666 2/3 + (.625 * 40) = 666 2/3 + 25 = 691 2/3 Mhz (I don't understand where .625 come from.)

"If you system clock change is a different amount than a 10 MHz, then the increase effects on everything else will be in accordance with the same formulae."

More on RAM Speed/Practicalities

"Your setting in BIOS most likely says '667MHz' at present. As mentioned earlier, that is not an absolute figure. It is really a fractional divisor. If you overclock the CPU the true RAM speed will alter, even though that setting still reports '667MHz'."

So you are presented with a dilemma. What happens if your RAM modules can't handle the extra speed and still operate in a stable fashion. That's why overclockers fit RAM modules which are tried and tested at higher than rated speeds, or modules which are rated at higher speeds than the system generally uses. An overclocker might, for example, use RAM modules which are rated at 800MHz rather than 667MHz modules. That will allow him or her to make changes which push that RAM speed higher, all the way to 800MHz if need be."

Znod: Great. I am willing to buy very good different RAM--even substituting 2 GB for 4 GB if necessary. Please see Badcrew's post below. I would be very happy just to substitute higher rated RAM than to overclock my RAM because of the RAM-related risks of overclocking--not that doing so would eliminate CPU overclocking risks. So, maybe we are moving toward both system-clock bump recommendation and a RAM replacement recommendation.

"You're not wanting to do that, though. You want to see how far you can 'push' that 667MHz RAM you have. So what you need to do is to make tiny increments to your system clock (via the FSB setting in BIOS setup) and then test the system for stability and errors after each increment you make. You need to 'find' its tolerance."

Znod: I understand, but why not simply buy really good fast RAM. The tradeoff is some $ versus more time, effort, and risk. Depending on the $ magnitude, I often prefer giving $. This observation does not at all imply that you have been wasting your time explaining. I would want/need the explanation and value it very highly regardless of how I end up going about things. The explanation is essential for me to choose a course of action.

"If you have RAM 'speed' settings available there which fall between the 667MHz and 800MHz levels you might be simply able to choose an interim setting. If your next available setting is 800MHz then your RAM is likely to crash if pushed that far. (If it is cheap, generic RAM you mightn't even get ANY overclock out of it.) So you need to find its 'sweet spot'. If your motherboard is one which is really suited to overclocking it might even allow you to increase the RAM voltage levels a teeny bit to gain stability at higher speeds, but if you do that you need to be mindful of cooling needs."

Znod: Great info. But, the easy way for a duffer like me is simply to increase the system clock a little at a time and to buy better fast RAM, right? And, in this context, I would need to make sure that "... [my motherboard] ... allow[s] those system bus speeds to be 'locked' to a fixed frequency."

"The fundamental approach to overclocking (and I'm sure it'll be mentioned in the guides Jibreel linked) is to first overclock your CPU. As you do so, keep altering your RAM settings accordingly to keep that working at its original actual speed. Find the tolerance level of your CPU. Then start working on your RAM, altering its divisor to find the level where it will run faster and still maintain stability."

Znod: Got it, but I still am not clear on the "divisor" thing and the .625.

"If you find that your CPU will tolerate a decent overclock but your RAM won't, then you run the CPU overclocked and the RAM setting throttled back to maintain something very close to its rated speed. If you find that your RAM will overclock well but your CPU won't then you run your RAM at a faster speed but keep your CPU back where it will remain stable. The 'ideal' is to get both CPU and RAM operating at speeds where the interaction between then will be 'synchronised' in terms of that original system clock setting.

Your system is currently running with RAM operating at less than ideal speed. With a 1067MHz FSB the ideal scenario for you is 1067MHz RAM. But that stuff is rather expensive, so you are currently running slower than ideal RAM and have a divisor in place to achieve its actual speed.

Znod: 1067 / 1067 = 1 = the ideal right?

"We can now move on from all those theoretical considerations. It was all provided simply to inform you better about what is happening and how it all interacts. Let's get on with making some changes.

Start by simply altering your RAM speed setting to the next setting up. If you are in luck your RAM might handle it OK and that's all you'd need to do.

It probably won't, though. The most likely outcome is that your system would crash and refuse to boot up. If that happens you need to reset CMOS and start over. (Resetting CMOS puts everything back to default settings and gets your system booting up again.)

If that happens then you will need to make those small changes to CPU FSB to overclock the CPU instead, and be mindful of how that will impact on your RAM speed."

Znod: Excellent on all. I like to avoid crashes, non-booting, etc. So, I like the what's in red idea above. And, wouldn't I be "faster overall" by overclocking the the CPU and buying faster RAM than just overclocking my RAM or buying new RAM.

[crabby]

Now THAT's a post! Personally I can't see why you would want to overclock a system the outstrips over 80% of current systems! Give OCing a go and report back

crabby