Using 5840 "Forever:" Another Way??? Installing and Upgrading Vista Discuss Using 5840 "Forever:" Another Way??? in the Windows Vista forums; It doesn't seem to me that you read me carefully. Above, I said: "My opinion is that RTM piracy and RTM cracking are not quite in the same ...

[Znod]

It doesn't seem to me that you read me carefully. Above, I said:

"My opinion is that RTM piracy and RTM cracking are not quite in the same boat, but, of course, each is 'wrong,' regardless of our rationalizations."

Then, I gave my reason why they are not in the same boat. We disagree with the reason--not that both are "wrong." In this regard, to each his or her own, with respect to beliefs about my reason. But, I think that worldwide the pirating of the
Frankie build would have been (more) widespread and would have cost MS some $$$ if it had not taken some steps to stop the pirating of Frankie and its final (new) release.

[mojavekroc]

I'm not trying to attack anyone here on their beliefs. However, if you read the first posting in this thread, you can assume that "real piracy" (making your pre-RTM copy work forever) was the intention.

What is being discussed in the latter part of the thread is whether or not these "frankenbuilds" were actually piracy. I don't think that an evaluation copy is piracy. No one ever succeded in making a "frankenbuild" ever work past the end date of the Vista CPP, so why is it piracy?


The idea of the swapping of files to do this came from a Microsoft site.

I have read postings in Microsoft blogs that have the same opinion of my own. The only ones that seem to differ are people who believe that the swapping of these files made the RTM activate forever, which it didn't..

It is very likely that Microsoft will soon come out with an evaluation of the RTM. You can go on microsoft.com and download a 120 day trial of XP Pro x64. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/6...cts/trial.mspx I doubt that MS will ever lose money by letting people evaluate their software. In fact, I would believe the opposite.

There just seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in this thread if you read it from beginning to end....

[Znod]

Originally Posted by mojavekroc

I'm not trying to attack anyone here on their beliefs. However, if you read the first posting in this thread, you can assume that "real piracy" (making your pre-RTM copy work forever) was the intention.

That is correct. I subsequently decided that doing so is inappropriate for me (assuming it worked)--i.e., that the only appropriate way for me to use Vista "forever" is to reinstall it every 30 days--since apparently that modus operandi is most consistent with Microsoft's thinking. So, in a way, I am glad that what I proposed did not work. Still, what I suggested did not involve a crack. So, it would have been just a continuation of the original piracy in my opinion without inconsistency with RTM's EULA or Microsoft's apparent intentions--i.e., it simply a way to make starting over every approximately every 30 days eaiser.

What is being discussed in the latter part of the thread is whether or not these "frankenbuilds" were actually piracy. I don't think that an evaluation copy is piracy. No one ever succeded in making a "frankenbuild" ever work past the end date of the Vista CPP, so why is it piracy?

That is correct--which is one of the reasons I had no idea that your comments applied all the way back to my original post. IMO, any software that is distributed/used inconsistently with copyright laws and/or the software's EULA is piracy. This thought squares with the general idea of piracy implicit in the concept of warez. And, IMO, any software distributed/used inconsistency with a developers desires, whether copyrighted or not, is piracy.

The idea of the swapping of files to do this came from a Microsoft site.

An idea about how to do something is neither piracy nor a crack.

I have read postings in Microsoft blogs that have the same opinion of my own. The only ones that seem to differ are people who believe that the swapping of these files made the RTM activate forever, which it didn't..

I say everyone is free to believe what he or she want, and I don't care what it is.

It is very likely that Microsoft will soon come out with an evaluation of the RTM. You can go on microsoft.com and download a 120 day trial of XP Pro x64. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/6...cts/trial.mspx I doubt that MS will ever lose money by letting people evaluate their software. In fact, I would believe the opposite.

That's fine with me. I hope you won't be offended if I believe what I want to on this issue.

There just seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in this thread if you read it from beginning to end....

It's not nice to call people hypocrites. If you mean me, I have never said anything that is hypocritical on this thread. I now have informed you that I think that the quest to make RTM work forever, as I suggested, was inappropriate for my use. But, I think it is acceptable to reinstall every 30 days--which apparently is OK with MS. And, as inidcated if what I suggested originally would have worked, then it would not be unreasonable to believe that MS had that scenario in mind too since a crack is not involved. Regardless, I have the right to change my mind about things that are appropriate for me without being a hypocrite.

I have no idea what you are so excited about. I have never insulted you or demeaned you in any way. All I have done is try to reply to you as honestly as I can given what I though you were talking about. You could have helped me out a great deal by letting me know that you were referring to my original post, which now is more than 6 pages back, when we now are talking about "Frankie." And after all, you quoted my last post. Other than my last post, what else would I think you are talking about?

Making my message longer so it will post.

[Znod]

Originally Posted by mojavekroc

[b]
If you consider this illegal, I guess that if you have a RTM build and you do not have a Technet or MSDN subscription, then you illegally possess your copy of Vista since you did not get it from "legally" from MS.

I forgot about this part. I have never denied that I pirated RTM and am using it on two computers. And, I have never denied that my rationalization for this action is inappropriate--that I am going to obtain two copies of Vista legally. On the contrary, I am the first one here to insist that piracy is piracy no matter how convincing the rationalization. But, to continue, I have never liked the idea that I pirated RTM--which is the only thing I every have pirated. But, to square things up, I now am a member of TechNet--as of a few days ago. I have not yet downloaded anything, but I have paid the price for my two computers full of RTM. Incidentally, I will be downloading the final (new) Vista from TechNet as soon as my benefits ID arrives in a week or so more. What in the world are you so excited about?

[mojavekroc]

Ok look,

I probably took this thing too far. I really wasn't trying to attack you personally. It seemed that some (not just you) on here were trying to say that one way was worse than another. In my opinion they are really the same. My opinion was that MS was wrong for the update but it is their product and they can do what they want to combat piracy.

All that I am saying is that IMO one isn't different than the other. And really that's my opinion. You or anyone else here is entitled to believe what you want. I am not trying to say that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Am I on the right side of this thing?? Probably not.
Everything that we go through here happens on other sites too.

Znod, I know that you have integrity. I have seen it here and on other sites.
I personally apologize to you for taking this thing too far. I was wrong..

Now that you have TechNet, you can tell us if it is worth the money..

[Znod]

Thanks very much for the nice reply moja. It is rare when someone does what you just did. I really appreciate it.

One "worse" than another? I really am interested in the topic. Please clarify, for sure, which two things we are talking about? I think you are talking about my failed proposal for making RTM last for a long time without reinstalling (i.e., since my proposal really would not allow it to last forever without reinstalling) and the "Frankie" build.

If so, we can call the two equally "good" or "bad" when it comes to the piracy involved in obtaining the original RTM. One might argue from here that the "Frankie" approach is a crack, while the approach I suggested does not involve a crack. So, from this perspective, we can say that the "Frankie" approach violates the MS EULA, while my approach doesn't. Some might argue that two "bads" are worse than one "bad" when each alternative contains a common "bad." All I can say, is that hereafter I will engage in no more piracy and I won't use, and never have used, a crack (although I was temped and even "got" the crack).

I put good, bad, and worse in quotes above because it is hard for me to deal with these words since I don't "believe" in good and bad (i.e., good and evil). To me, things and happenings are just what they are--things and happenings. To me, everything in the universe is exactly the way it is "supposed" to be (too long a story). These views don't mean that I fail to behave in a "good" way. However, I do so out of personal preference rather that some, to me, abritrary code of behavior, etc.

As far as whether TechNet is worth it. I did my best to understand its benefits. When it comes to Vista, here is what I know/think. (1) I know that an individual subscription entitles one to download and/or obtain a hard copy of at least one time-bombless copy of RTM that can be installed on more than one computer--the "and/or" depending on the type of individual subscription one obtains. (2) I also know that the same thing applies to at least one evaluation copy of the final 1/30/06 realease of Vista. I do not know what the exact interpretation of "evaluation copy" is. But, for one thing, it is for individual use--e.g., not on multiple computers in a work environment. I assume that one can use it just as he or she would use a purchased copy. I have no idea if it will be upgradeable to Fiji. (3) I know that one can download and/or obtain a hard copy of other MS software, including time-bombless betas and final releases from time to time. (4) I know that TechNet has a great many more benefits--most of which I will not take advantage of.

I would have obtained my subscription even if (2), (3), and (4) were not possibilities. I just burned out on being a pirate and wanted to make things right. But, I am glad that (3) and (4) are for real and that I may, in effect, get the real Vista under (2).

What something is worth, of course, depends on the individual. For me, getting (1) to (4) is well worth the price and would have been from the outset, if I had understood things better. I was just playing a game I was unfamiliar with. As I came to understand better, I changed my mind about what was right for me and finally came up with a solution to make things as right as I could.

I know I get long winded and sometimes over explain. So, thank you in advance for indulging me.

Edit on TechNet: Since I ordered after business hours on Friday, I could not get any pre-order clarifications from TechNet. I ordered the Technet Plus Direct subscription--which costs $349 per year plus tax unless tax exempt. This subscription allows only downloads--which is fine with me. I won't have to wait as long as my e-mail impled to download. My order should be processed no later than tomorrow and I probably will receive my member number and benefits ID the same day. Order today and you'll be in as soon as I am. I think you have to wait for disk delivery with the TechNet Plus subscription--which is more expensive (could be wrong about the waiting though).

The final (to be released on 1/30/07) version of Vista now is available for download by TechNet Plus Direct subscribers and for disk mailing to TechNet Plus subscribers. This version is an evaluation copy. What this means is that, in concept, you can evaluate the version until you decide to buy or not. The evaluation version does not time out. It has to be installed cleanly, and the nice lady I talked to said that she does not know if it will be upgradeable to Fiji.